Dr. Pastore discusses dairy intolerances, including whey and casein intolerances, at length in this conversation. In this conversation, he goes into the different types of allergies that exist and the body's responses to these types of intolerances.
Lexie: Welcome back to another episode of the modus movement. Today, we are going to be talking about dietary sensitivities and intolerances around whey and casein proteins and just dairy in general. This topic hits home for me because I am lactose intolerant and this is something that I wasn't aware of until I started working with Modus and learning all about the signs of the food intolerance from Dr. Pastore and I am really excited that we can share that same knowledge that I learned with you guys today.
This might be a little bit too much information for people but I just want to be completely honest and open about my experiences with lactose intolerance in case anyone else is going through this as well. So I have always been lactose intolerant but I didn't know it. And growing up, I was a really gassy kid. Like little eight year old Lexie. I could out burp my uncles. It was something I was proud of but you know gas coming out the other end, I could also clear a room which was really embarrassing growing up. You know, school, sports practice, sleepovers and I just always thought, you know this is how I am. I can't change it. All of my meals growing up had milk or they were cooked in butter.
My parents weren't educated in nutrition. But since I made that transition to go completely dairy free, my skin had cleared up. I'm less sore after my workouts and I'm recovering better and I have no gas at all, so it's completely changed my life and it's all due to this man right here, Dr. Robert Pastore.
Dr. Pastore: Oh my goodness. Well Lexie, thank you for that intro. And one of the greatest things that ever happened is you came into my life.
Dr. Pastore: It's an honor and a pleasure every day to work with you. Thank you.
Lexie: So, we are going to get into the sciences of food intolerances versus allergies versus auto immune conditions in future episodes. But today we are solely focusing on dairy and this is a true fact. So it was really surprising when I first heard it but according to the National Institute of Health, they report that 65% of the adult population has a reduced ability to digest lactose. So Dr. Pastore, what does that mean?
Dr. Pastore: And this is the number one definition of food intolerance. And I think the audience, listening audience should really understand that this is a well know clinical terminology by the American Academy of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology which has a ridiculous acronym of AAAI. So what they have said is that when you have the inability to produce an enzyme to break down a specific food that you're ingesting, that is a clinical deficiency of the enzyme and then therefore that is an intolerance to that substance and to that food
So when a human being has lactose intolerance, they do not produce the digestive enzyme lactase to properly digest that milk sugar. Lactose is predominantly found in concentrated dairy products. Yes, there is much found in whey protein isolates. Casein protein isolates but we're really going to feel it if we have a condensed milk or a low fat milk that's removing the fat. You are going to notice more of the lactose or the protein being present after that fact. So you'll notice people consuming that that have a lactose intolerance, definitely feeling some of the ramifications that you were mentioning.
I also want to add that this is a growing trend of identification. A lot of people are finally waking up to saying, maybe it's not a good thing to just mask it. If I have this intolerance genetically what does that really mean? Is it okay that I'm just drinking milk that is a void of this or contains the enzyme ... you know there is Lactaid milk in the states so you can then consume this milk and not have any problems.
I'd like to be so bold Lexie to say this. If you are having straight gastrointestinal reactions after consuming a Lactose containing food and then saying I have belching. I have gastrointestinal discomfort. Potentially some flatulence after consuming this. I then would go, okay that fits this AAAI, the American Academy of Asthma and Allergy and Immunology's definition of an intolerance. They believe it's predominantly gastrointestinal based with its symptomatology. Exactly what you've described.
But then when you said, I recover better. My skin got better. All these other types of experiences outside of my gastrointestinal track got better. That is more a definition of an immunological reaction you could be having to that food. That's something I'm extremely interested in and that's what I do not believe that enough people that have this lactose intolerance either diagnosed by a medical doctor or dietician first doing the probing or even on their own, are not looking enough into. So it's yes you will be rescued from the embarrassment of flatulence, perhaps, by consuming milk that is lactose free or by taking the enzyme that you're naturally deficient in, but I think you would actually be cutting yourself short and probably would still experience some of these other symptoms.
The skin abnormalities you're experiencing, definitely the inflammatory reactions you were having and that to me is where we bridge the gap, between food intolerance by definition and food intolerance that actually has more nomenclature around it. Like you could be experiencing a non IGE mediated delayed food allergy reaction. These are true, real things that exist in the food immunology but not enough attention is being put on it, because there will never be a wonder drug that makes that go away. The solution is stopping it, right? Stopping the food.
Lexie: Now, for the people that take Lactase pills with their milk product, how effective it that?
Dr. Pastore: Not 100%. We've known that. It's kind of like when we talked about organics versus non organics. You are not getting zero pesticides you're getting way, way, way less. The same thing transpires when you're taking these supplements. You'll notice, these supplements meaning, lactose digesting enzyme lactase along with your dairy product, you will just reduce the gastrointestinal complaints that you have.
You're not doing anything about inflammation if you're experiencing inflammation associated with that. You're not going to do anything with skin abnormalities if you experience skin abnormalities with that. You are just reducing your gastrointestinal discomfort.
I'd like to say you're masking. You're masking the real governing problem. Clearly, the individual has a problem with that ingredient in dairy and should not consume that. Now I'm of the camp where I have a classic dairy allergy. I haven't consumed dairy in god, I think it's 29 years now. Not that I'm keeping count. Not knowingly. I've been punked. And trust me, I've paid my ramification to dairy is a migraine headache that will last anywhere from four to seven days. That has no known treatment. I didn't go as far a heroin but any of the known, classic, like migraine blockers, injectables. I've done it all. I had migraines for 20 years of my life. It was all caused by dairy. That was my allergy slash intolerance experience.
And doctor's denied me of the belief system that it was an allergy, because I did not have at the time the classic measurement of an allergy. Like a skin wheel scratch test. At the time, I ended you having true IG anti bodies in my blood and then a more classic delayed antibody response in my blood. There are different types of antibody reactions we can have to foods. We can delve into that more deeper on a different show.
But I just want the audience to know now if I would have taken lactose pills with that, that's not going to do anything for my migraines.
Lexie: Now, when you are consuming something that you're intolerant to, such as like milk or a whey protein, how is that effecting your digestive tract?
Dr. Pastore: So if you're having gastrointestinal reactions, there is without a doubt a call to arms of the immune system. There's immunological reactions, there is pro inflammatory chemicals that are in there. There may be something known as the separation of intestinal type junction cells. If you think of a deck of playing cards and we lay those cards out and we have them very tight together, out on a table, as if a magician was getting prepared for a magic trick, you can see that they are extremely tied together. How thin those playing cards are. They are sturdy, yet you can see there is no seam between them.
If you were to imagine, that's how our intestinal cells are lined up. The reason that's so important is that they are allowing in protection, so that we can digest our food and have specific complete food nutrients, processed through the liver. Absorbed and decimated throughout the body. Some may pass through areas in the small intestine that have pockets of finger like projectiles known as the lactiles, that's within the villi and micro villi. So that we can absorb nutrients more effectively. It just makes its own efficient machine.
If things go awry and those cells separate, we can have food particles in a location where they don't belong, inflammatory chemicals in a location where they don't belong, which starts signaling an immunological response. So several things can happen. You can have problems outside of the area where your food is sitting. So for example, joint pain, various forms of body discomfort and an immunological reaction, skin reactions, hives, all transpire when we have that breaching of the gut membrane.
Then the big thing we have to keep in mind is if you're having direct gastrointestinal symptoms and let's say you actually have a loose bowel movement, whoa, you just expedited transit time that would normally require for digesting the food you had, therefore you're one, not digesting full and appropriately. Two, not extracting all the key nutrients required from said foods. And three, could end up having borderline deficiency states, sub optimal intakes and definitely not getting what you think you're getting from your meal. And that's a very strong messaging.
So if I have a woman who is at risk for osteoporosis or may have the precursor osteopenia or just that family history and she thinks loading up on dairy products which are a good source of calcium on a label but she's having food intolerances and loose stools after consuming it, she's not getting that calcium. She's not getting that vitamin D. She's actually doing her body a disservice.
Lexie: Now for the people that experience minor, minor, minor symptoms where I feel like rumbling in my stomach after I have a whey protein shake or something like that, how detrimental is it to be consuming that even though they are not experiencing major symptoms?
Dr. Pastore: Well I can tell you, if I connect that to my work in professional athletes that was a major red flag, that really shouldn't happen. I had a giant protein shake before our morning meeting and here I am talking to you. Yeah and 30 grams of protein in a huge bowl, and I'll be honest I drank it quite briskly because I'm chasing a 15 month old around at the same time, trying to make sure she's fed before I start my workday. I don't even feel anything in my stomach. Digestion is an autonomic nervous system response mechanism. I don't close my eyes and cross my fingers and go I'm going to digest now. It should happen. It should be passive. There are things of course that are normal.
Overeating. Eating the wrong foods. If you feel bloated or distended but if you even feel like a little bit of something going on in your gut, I would absolutely say record that in a food journal, the way you would in an exercise journal. Positivity journal. Whatever you do, I'm a big fan of journaling. Record that. Do that opposite for a period of time. Repeat the journaling negative offense and see if you can repeat, as long as you're not harming yourself with an anaphylactic reaction, but if you could repeat that problem consider that a potential food intolerance because that is one of the biggest things that came out of a huge summit on trying to prove how to ascertain the difference between a true food allergy and a food intolerance and one of the biggest concluding remarks by all the world's experts of all the different divisions of the Academy of Allergy, etc is repetition. If you eat mustard, and this happens and you eat mustard again and that happens, it's a cause and effect direct connection.
Having said that, wrench about to go into the machinery. There is something very well known in my work that I identified after 20 years of experience which is a hidden food mediated reaction where people do not immediately identify the cause and effect. Please understand obviously we are all different people. Some people can feel temperatures different than other people, almost immediately. We have different taste sensations. We have different responses to our environment, responses to stress. If someone is extremely stressed and they drink or consume the healthiest thing for them, they may have a momentary negative reaction in their gut, because they are actually getting into a fight or flight response, moving blood flow away from the digestive organs to their muscles to flee or fight.
So if you have all of that eliminated from your life and you're hearing or feeling something, listen to your body and remove it. If you can identify, that's really when I think seeking out a professional, if you're saying I have these nagging aches and pains, I have this nagging skin problem that I really believe in my heart is associated with food but I can't figure it out, a specialist in nutrition can help you. A certified nutrition specialist, a registered dietician knowledgeable in food allergies could potentially be your first line of defense to help you identify what this problem is. What could they do?
They could do something as simple as a wonderful tool we use in nutrition. It's not even expensive. It's a food frequency questionnaire. It's so interesting to see how often people eat stuff. And I would recommend people finding a really good qualified version of it, maybe one endorsed by a certified nutritional body and then practicing that on their own. And they may say huh you know. I didn't realize that I eat more strawberries than anything else at the end of a 30 day period of time. Maybe I should switch to some other fruit for a period of time and see if that's it.
So I always look for, if someone is trying to find a hidden or delayed food mediated reaction, in the absence of doing any type of testing on them, or in concert, you never should run away from or blow off the important of journaling and food frequency. How often are you consuming what in your diet? Because sometimes what you're consuming on a daily basis or as frequently as that, could be the problematic food.
Lexie: And if you go back, for me personally, two years ago now I was eating yogurt. I had six different flavors of whey protein because who doesn't want bubble gum protein powder. It was delicious. I was having milk in my cereal and it was all things that added up that I didn't put together. Now, with your experience with professional athletes how often did you see them come in with an unknown dairy intolerance?
Dr. Pastore: 90% of the time. I kid you not. And there is some reasons behind that, there's some reasons behind that. One, you could say, well Dr. Pastore you had a tainted pool of subjects because people obviously were seeking you out if they thought there potentially could be something going on nutritionally with a nutrient or a food. Correct. So I definitely had more. But number two, just being a high intensity training athlete actually increases your risk for food mediated reaction. And this is very well known. It's proven scientifically but people just don't want to talk about it. It doesn't get enough media attention.
When you exercise to a very high level of intensity, you actually secrete specific types of proteins, enzymes, that are phosphorolated and they can separate the intestinal site junction cells, just as I was saying that that can happen with something that you're consuming that is potentially deleterious to you. One person's food can truly be another person's problem. So if an athlete is just by default, by their occupation, has that problem happening and they’re, let's say in the dug out just non stop eating sunflower seeds and continuing that at home, they probably have a higher risk of potentially having an immunological reaction to those seeds. I would need to identify that, remove that, rotate that in their diet, solve the problem after a period of elimination. Switch them to a pumpkin seed, something that I know is historically more innocuous from an allergen scale. Because there are classic allergies as we know, right?
Peanuts are way more allergenic than any other legume in family that they are in. But one person's food, though I just want to say to look at the main allergens but one person's food can truly be another person's problem. A lot of times athletes will come in and not have a clue and then on the paper, the data, and that classic journaling. We're in the off season. Let's stop doing this. Let's now reintroduce it and they, to quote one of my ball players, he felt like he was hit with a ton of bricks.
Kind of like how you were like oh my god. This one gentleman and it ended up being in the popular press, he said, the doctors who want to rehab me would say where is the pain? And he would say everywhere. You know how hard that is if you're a physical therapist for a player of a professional team who is making tens of millions of dollars and your job is oh my god. I have to get him well, in rehab, and get him out on the field and he can't tell you where it hurts. Then I was able to get him healthy, the best year of his career he ever had and that's on public record. But then more importantly all athletes won't feel pain. All athletes are going to ache. He was then able to say it hurts exactly here. Then they would be able to address exactly where his pain was.
So it's always eye opening to them when they find out exactly what's wrong. And the last thing I just want to mention on that is please, anyone who is listening or hasn't listened to it, please listen to the Raul Ibanez podcast with my conversation with a good friend who was also a patient of mine in the past and his story is remarkable. How two food reactions he was having prevented him at 37 years old from being able to run 40 yards without pain. And then in a short period of time, he was able to do 100 yards without any pain. And if you're a fan of baseball like I am, the rest of his career is history. Literally.
Lexie: For sure. Now let's jump into whey protein powder. Because this is a huge topic, just around modus in general and kind of aside from the Modus Movement Podcast, we also have the concept of the Modus Movement which is a shift away from whey based protein powders and dairy based protein powders to something that you do not react to. So why for all of these years, has whey been deemed the king of protein powder?
Dr. Pastore: Great question Lexie. It's been deemed the king of protein powder because it's difficult to argue with what it looks like on paper. It is, first of all, I think the listeners may know by now that whey is basically a waste by product of the cheese industry and the dairy industry separating the curds from whey. And we know that the whey is this liquid portion that is extremely rich in all the essential amino acids, particularly the branch chain amino acid lucine. A lot of conditional essential amino acids in secondary non essential amino acids. So when you look at that on paper and that looks fantastic, that's alarming.
There's also been tons of published and sponsored research on short term consumption of whey increasing one's musculature, etc, etc, etc. And I don't want to say a debate but it ends up sadly turning into that, when you have real research purists with PHDs such as myself, that then are blind by that dogma, don't fit in the category we have. By the way, we're in the majority. So they are in the minority of being able to make their own lactose, bless their little hearts and they are jumping up and down with a flag in the sand of how great his protein is and look at the changes in musculature.
One of my arguments I've said, and this just happened recently was I will never be able to feel the benefits that you're seeing in that clinical journal because the food makes me so physically ill. Yes, I gave my migraine story but I also could give you 13 years of loose stool stories if you don't mind me sharing that too much information, just by consuming any dairy products. So zero benefit comes my way when I'm consuming whey.
Ironically, individuals who can consume whey, will have zero problems with a plant based protein that actually looks as good if not better than whey on paper and they will not have any of the gastro intestinal distress. So it's interesting how this, working with proteins that are in plant based world can be more partisan. And it's not just a one side other side left right both people can consume the plant based side. But the plant based side people can never or really reactive like you and in my more severe case, we can never even experience onto the whey based side.
So I think it really comes from the reason it became the rockstar is this dogma. And it's going on and on and on, but the tides are turning. What helped a lot was the work of a brilliant man that I've been a huge fan of since I read his first paper in 1999 called Cereal Grains Humanities Double Edged Sword. I'm referring to the great Dr. Loren Cordain retired professor emeritus at Colorado State. He really put on the map, the research of an evolutionary human diet through clinical study where Loren's job wasn't seeing patients. Loren's job was actually putting together academic research, putting it through the peer reviewed process and publishing it and making studies on human beings. He wrote a lot of papers on how dairy is this, sadly this wunderkind that came about and there was a lot of politic that were involved behind it and that we really don't need it to survive.
We need protein to survive. But we don't need dairy protein to survive. So I think the tides are turning. It's a slow moving wheel, but it's moving.
Lexie: Now for the people that buy lactose free whey protein powder, so whether it's a whey isolate or whatever it is, does that still have dairy? Is that still going to cause a reaction?
Dr. Pastore: Yeah and free is kind of like the definition of caffeine free. If you go and get a decaf coffee, are you aware that you're still getting about five milligrams of caffeine? I wouldn't drink that before bed by the way, if you do that after dinner stop now. If you have a sleep problem. So it's not zero caffeine. It goes back to, I love those enlightening pearls, you know Lexie, about telling people the truth about things. Same thing with this is sodium free. It has sodium in it, it just has below the benchmark of what the government says is what you have to report it on the label. So those things exist. It's trans fat free but it has hydrogenated oil in the ingredient line. If you're below half a gram, per serving, you're allowed to say you're trans fat free. But what happens if you eat the box? You increase your risk of a heart attack by 30 something percentage. Whatever the last study was.
So no, when you consume a lactose free whey and you're lactose intolerant, I promise you you're still exposed to some lactose. You will reduce your symptom levels. It absolutely still is dairy, no matter how much you change the duck it's a duck. There is nothing you can do to whey to make it not whey except not have whey. That wouldn't make sense. You'd be selling air. So whey is still dairy. It's a highly concentrated form of dairy and the people that have negative reactions to dairy, those like you, were reporting an inflammatory process that is way beyond lactose and you should stay away from whey.
Lexie: And that's one of the things, up here in Canada, I don't know if it's a thing in the States but we have lactose free yogurt and I am a huge lover of Greek yogurt and it was something that I was consuming up until about a year ago, so I had eliminated all of my dairy products and I was like oh I can still have lactose free Greek yogurt, and when I eliminated that entirely my skin got even better. So it was, I wasn't experiencing any sort of digestive issues as much or anything that was noticeable but I was still reacting to it. I just wasn't aware.
Dr. Pastore: You just weren't aware. There are a couple factors there. There is definitely the immunological reaction and then Dr. Cordaine published some really interesting research that he has published in the Journal of Dermatology on how whey and particular fat free dairy products could lead to an increase in acne, acne genesis. One of the mechanisms of action, was the fact that these proteins from dairy can still have some hormones in them even when they are hormone free on the label or this cow never experienced a hormone injection or fed anything with a hormone. They are still producing hormones as the natural by product of how they would make their own calf's milk. So there is still beta cellulin that's growth factor that we know humans have a specific receptor for that in the gastrointestinal track. That could make that stimulate epithelial growth factor.
We know that dairy products and whey products can potentiate insulin growth factor one. They may actually even contain the substance and that is directly linked to the stimulation of acne production. So there's definitely that growing theme there. But I also want to dial back to the fact to that the facts that we're talking about today. If you have some type of immunological reaction to a food protein, like in your case dairy, it absolutely can negatively impact your skin, just from that perspective itself. Just from that immunological reaction.
That was one of the first things I looked for if an athlete came in or the general population came into my office saying, I have this terrible horrendous skin problems, what can I do to treat them? The first place I'd look is what is your immunological reaction of how you're nourishing yourself? That's a very important first question that I think a lot of practitioners miss to this day.
Lexie: Now, how long do you think it would take when someone tries to eliminate dairy, how long would they take to see the benefit?
Dr. Pastore: See the benefit? You know Lexie, that's another great question. For me with my migraines I needed to be away from the food for a solid 30 days. And I believe in a month long process. 21 days minimum but if you can really get into a full month, I think you'd see a world of benefits. Because you want to see what your body is like. You'll stop this immunological cascade. You know, what we need to think about too is how we brush off original negative reactions followed by how the body adapts. And I think one of the best things I ever discovered just through normal Eureka moments of practicing, studying the literature academically but then practicing is the masking phenomenon that transpires when we put something that's harmful in our bodies.
Think of smoking. Whenever I've ever heard of an individual smoke their first cigarette and there even has been documentaries on this, they will cough up a lung. They are coughing. They are so sick. By the time they finish their first pack, they are no longer coughing. The human body wants homeostasis. It's going to do everything it can to secrete chemicals, various types of opioid based chemicals to naturally react within its body naturally, preventing counteract that horrible coughing mechanism, knowing the body is still going to be exposed to this, we need to survive as human beings.
What you will notice over time is that masking phenomenon continues until there is a disease and the individual's burden of toxin is so much more greater than the individual can tolerate, the cup runneth over. We break the masking phenomenon and we get sick. I've seen that with dairy. When I was a very little boy, I got deathly sick from consuming milk in kindergarten. I would like to my parents. I don't want to drink it. Make up any excuse to get out of doing it. Kept getting in trouble and was forced to consume it.
Over time there was a very short period of time in my life where I had a, I just dealt with it and then it just spilled over very early even before I finished that first year of preschool, kindergarten rather, with a migraine complex that doctors couldn't treat.
So it was, I had a shorter masking time, thank goodness then going a life time and getting sick which is what happened with my celiac disease unfortunately.
Lexie: And that's something that I experienced as well. So growing up, eating dairy all the time, sure I was gassy but I was able to function and then once I cut it out, if I reintroduced it occasionally, if I had a chocolate chip cookie or cinnamon bun or whatever something that had milk in it, I felt the effects ten times worse than they ever were when I was consuming it every single day. And it really opens your eyes to like this is what is going on inside my body. And for me, as someone that lifts five times a week, I would much rather put that energy towards repairing the muscle damage that I'm doing than trying to fix the insides that I've damaged by having a chocolate chip cookie.
Dr. Pastore: Absolutely. I dislike greatly some of the professional groups that make it seem like you can't live a life without dairy products and that dogma still exists. There are commercials about well then you have to have lactaid or if you're not getting your three servings or whatever serving for you specifically you're going to fall to dust. And that is so not true. I had a phenomenal DEXUS scan. I am 49 years old. I haven't had dairy in 29 years. I've seen the same exact thing in female athletes. How about that? Long distance runners. Triathletes that I have treated that I have found really react immunologically to dairy, should never consume it and have better bones than they did when they actually were suffering through the female athlete triad while hyper consuming dairy products five to six times a day. They were getting an abundance of calcium, protein, all the nutrients.
I'm not denying that food does not have nutritional content. What I'm saying is if it's making people sick, why should they be forced to consume it? And I say that about everything. Today we're talking specifically about dairy. I have celiac disease. I can't even think of consuming any of the gluten containing grains or gluten substances, even though we know they contain nutrients. The company Modus has published articles that say wheat is a source of this nutrient. That's great for the general population. I will never be able to procure that nutrient from that food source.
We have so many options to get our foods, with food to get our nutrients. We don't need to just demand one food stay in our diet if it's making us sick.
Lexie: So we bashed dairy and whey but let's say you're part of the 45% that is okay with dairy. What are the benefits?
Dr. Pastore: That's an interesting question, because I did say that I was a big fan of Dr. Loren Cordaine and his research and I have published some critical papers on more of a hunter gatherer type dairy free diet on specific biological markers. So if we ignore my own personal view, though I have retired from practice. There is nutritional content that has been added to dairy products. Dairy is fortified with Vitamin D, much to many people's lack of knowledge, there is not vitamin D magically appearing in cow's milk. It is fortified with that. The same holds true for vitamin A, to optimize that. And dairy is a decent source of calcium, coming in at around 30% for standard serving for a milk product. It contains all of the essential amino acids that one would need to support growth, if they are in that 45%. That's just lactose intolerance. We didn't factor in if they have a good allergy or a food intolerance, right?
That could take us to a higher level. Some doctors, there is a doctor named Theron Randolph who was a great allergist and he used to say that 60% of the population probably had food intolerance or delayed food allergy that they weren't aware of. So if you could imagine that combination, you could see why a lot of people are running away from dairy.
Having said all of that I also think there is some problems within the industry. I think if we really start looking at the industry you'd have to go far and wide to find dairy products that are really truly organic and then please don't believe that dairy is 100% hormone free. That is not possible. There is indeed beta cellulin in every single dairy product that's grass fed and a religious deity was combing and petting the cow as it was feeding in the pasture. Please, please pardon my sense of humor.
No matter what light you want to put on it that is positive, you have to accept that there are risk factors for hormones with that. As I expect, the risk factors, that my kale salad will indeed have some lead in it, like it or not. That's just the law of living in an industrialized society. It just doesn't happen to have levels that are high enough to elicit a negative reaction as set by governing boards that are logical and make sense. I hope I'm making sense.
Lexie: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Now how do the 65% that are lactose intolerant go from being okay with their mother's milk, to not being able to digest lactose later in life?
Dr. Pastore: Yeah, it's a completely different species. We really need to, that's another thing we need to know. If you really look at cow's milk and trust me, I spent a lot of time really dissecting it, looking at the different proteins. Understanding that the casein group is in the 400 plus proteins. It's not just one magical protein called casein. There is so many amino acids and polly peptide chains that make up these things. And the same holds true for how milk is designed. Mother's milk, different calorie perspective, different amino acid perspective, different lactose content. Completely different makeup requiring different enzymes compared to the milk that a cow needs to get a baby calf to get to hundreds of ... there are some serious mechanisms of action to drive that force.
And that really only happened in the human diet, 10,000, 12,000 years ago, look depending on which literature you look at. So it has a very new practice of a blip on the human genome scale of us as a species evolving and consuming foods. We really were predominantly hunter gatherers. It's kind of like the last 10 yards of a football field. So if you're looking at an entire football field and you're finally past the 10 yard line, that's when milk entered the human genome if you were going to go back to all that distance.
And it's one of the things I looked at when I was studying 200 hunter gatherer societies and ended up publishing some research on what a diet could look to reduce some of the known risk of cardio vascular disease, that big groups look at, right? Like the American Heart Association. I found it fascinating how I improved biological markers by doing nothing but swapping out different types of food to fill in macro nutrients. So yeah it's a completely different makeup biologically. And we can't ignore what would happen to an infant if they were to consume large quantities of beta cellulin right?
I hate to say it but in pediatrics we could always tell a formula baby from a breast fed baby. We could tell just the size of the child. How the child was different. My daughter is 15 months old and she's never consumed milk and she's going to milk when she consciously goes and purchases her own milk. That's when my daughter is going to have access to dairy, when she's a punk teenager with her allowance and going to purchase it and then I'll be there after she's very sick after consuming it for the first time.
If that doesn't say a lot about my belief system, and dairy, I don't know what else does. I don't think there is any other sound byte I can give you.
Lexie: Now for someone that suspects that they might have a dairy intolerance but they are not sure. What are some of the signs besides gas and bloating that they would look for?
Dr. Pastore: Yeah and that's what's so ... if it's an intolerance it's beyond lactose and that's something I want the audience to understand. If it's just lactose intolerance primarily your symptoms will be gastrointestinal. If it's beyond that and this may shock you, but I am hoping the audience will really please hear me out here, believe it or not, if there's something you're experiencing that's chronic, absolutely look to see if there is a food mediated reaction and what we know from pediatric literature is infant anemia has been linked to dairy allergy. That's huge.
I've met adult athletes, predominantly female that have come in to see me with hair loss, thinking they have to optimize their amino acids and I find their ferritin and iron transfer carrying protein throughout the body, being extremely low. Having low serum iron, which is an immediate red flag if they are iron deficient but also noticing they are on a high quality pre natal pill that has plenty of iron in it to meet their recommended daily allowances. So clearly, the theory of something disrupting absorption is real. We know it from pediatrics to adults. So, if there's a chronic anemia, if there's a chronic problem that you're having for a long period of time, that doctor's can't solve, look at your diet and see if there is something that I'm consuming that's actually exasperating this.
Like pardon me bringing it up Lexie but since you brought it up, but if there's a chronic skin problem in someone as incredibly healthy as you, that takes such great care of themselves, could there be a food that they are consuming that's behind that? We can't deny that. There is absolutely a link. It's published in the journals of dermatology. That there's a link between food and acne. That's a known fact.
So no more is that myth existing that doesn't exist. That's a lie. It does exist and it is published. If there's reduced nutritional absorption. If your doctor says gee you're in your 30s and 40s and why are you low in B12, let's examine your diet. Did you go vegan overnight? No. You could have a food mediated reaction. I've seen that a lot in practice. Men and women in their 20s and 30s having low B12, that's clearly having their gastrointestinal track, their normal digestion ...
Lexie: And for the listeners that don't know what B12 does, what are kind of some signs of low B12?
Dr. Pastore: Being extremely exhausted. Being sluggish. Being tired. Having wow my brain is not firing as quickly as it can. That's a clear sign of a B12 deficiency or sub levels of B 12. That doctor ... I've never met a doctor that's missed that because it's so well published. You want to know how big of a deal it is Lexie? There is actually literature on B12 deficiencies mimicking early Alzheimer's symptoms. How frightening is that? I've seen cases and read about doctors and published papers on in peer reviewed literature, of doctor's saying oh my goodness, measure the elderly for B12. If you see someone in the sub 200 and they are listing symptoms of dementia, it could actually be a B12 deficiency. Fix that first.
So I've always been fascinated with how nutrients can affect such massive prospects, situations in the human body, various different types of symptoms can be drawn about if you're deficient in a key nutrient. Decreased performance. If you're a weekend warrior, if you're someone who just goes to aerobics classes regularly, if you weight train like Lexie regularly, and you're saying gee you know, I'm just really not performing the way I want to. That's another sign of a food intolerance. Why? How? How does it even make sense? Allow me to explain.
The bulk of the human immune system is in the gastrointestinal tract. If they is completely hyper and by bulk I mean well over 65%, if that is completely preoccupied with something you're eating and your immune system is reacting and firing and producing these immunological reactions, isn't that just like living with the flu? Of course you're going to have decreased performance in what you do.
Lexie: And if we go back to a couple podcasts, where I had that butternut squash soup which had the milk or the cream or whatever sort of dairy liquid they put in it to make it taste delicious, that following week I crushed a really hard leg day but I was sore for five days after. Normally I recover. My delayed onset muscle soreness is gone within two days max. I was sore for five days. It was ridiculous.
Dr. Pastore: And you just hit the next point I wanted to bring up which is reduced healing times and aches and pains. Those are very real summaries of the symptomatology one would experience if they had a food intolerance outside of something as simple as lactose intolerance. And we need to look at those things. And that's when i really think it makes so much sense, pardon me for being redundant but I loved this exercise as an under grad student. I am still not bored of it now. Approaching 50, a food frequency chart is amazing.
First you get to see, darn I'm not getting enough asparagus this month. The second thing you see is wow I'm having way too much of X or this or that. It's just awesome and it's broken down into categories and you really start to see that I need to diversify my diet. If that's just too much, it's actually one sheet. But if that's too much work or maybe you want to be more in depth, download a really quick three, five day food journal where you just write down every thing you're consuming and it makes it as idiot proof as possible. You can put in your beverages.
Hey you might come out of that going, wow I am dehydrated this week. Well Dr. Pastore and Lexie, I didn't have any reactions but thank you for helping me drink more water. Then we did our service. Just know what you're putting in your body, now how often you're putting it in your body, come on man. You're looking at a fuel tank on your car. Right?
Just really examining how you're nourishing yourself. I think it's critical.
Lexie: And that's one thing that all you have to do is eliminate the food for a period of time. So yes if you can afford it, if you have the resources, you can go see a nutritionist or registered dietician and they can run all of these tests for you. But if you can't all you have to do is stop eating a food. Stop spending money on a dairy product that you've been eating. Switch it to something else, read all of your labels, make sure that there is no may contain milk. There is no modified milk ingredients in there. Be diligent for three to four weeks and then try reintroducing it after and it makes a world of a difference if you are intolerant to a food.
Dr. Pastore: World of a difference. If you could get through that first solid month, we did no harm. There were people that fast and stop all food for a period of time, right? In cultures for religious reasons. The great holy holiday of Ramadan. Why can't you just say I'm nourishing my body and I'm going to stop food X for 30 days? Then we're begging you to eat it again. See how you feel. You may open up this can of a eureka moment that is mesmerizing. Do you know how great it feels to have 20 years of migraines, actually 17 to be exact, to have 17 years of migraines and then haven't had one unless I was punked in those few periods of times and how lousy the drugs made me feel when I was on them, because I was so desperate.
I mean I don't even understand how I had any academic history because I took my SATs with one eye covered laying on the desk because I had such a blinding migraine that test day of course. Because I was crushing dairy. That was what the dogma, the media, the education, right? If I'm not getting my three servings of dairy a day, I'm obviously starving myself and I want to be a healthy kid so goodness no I don't want to starve myself. So it's all this misunderstanding and political interference that resulted in this wave of this 65%. That's hopefully going to figure this out.
So please try what we're telling you to do today. It can only bring a world of good.
Lexie: And if you do want some help, and if you're listening to this in either December or January of 2018, 2019, if you go to the Modus Nutrition Instagram, the link in our bio is to sign up for the Modus Movement which is this shift away from dairy. We walk you through it. Every single email comes from Dr. Pastore teaching you about all the things that he's learned over his years in practice. Different athletes, different stories of people that we've worked with where switching from dairy has changed their life. So if you're interested in signing up, head over to our Instagram.
If for some reason you're listening to this a little bit later, send us an email. Help, email@example.com. We can send the link to you via email and as always if you do have questions about whey protein, dairy, intolerances, whatever it may be, feel free to send us an email and I will send all of that over to Dr. Pastore so he can answer it personally.
Dr. Pastore: Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Lexie: Thanks for listening to another episode of the Modus Movement and as always, we'll see you next week.
Dr. Pastore: Take care.